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Post by Leftylarry on Oct 1, 2015 12:33:28 GMT -5
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 1, 2015 17:21:37 GMT -5
Another mass shooting...this time in Oregon. There's some chatter that a bunch of dickfaces on 4Chan dared the guy to do it and then cheered when he did. Hunt them down, take them all to Oregon and have them face the families of the victims. What complete trash.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 1, 2015 19:48:33 GMT -5
Since January 1, 2015:
Days - 274
Mass shootings - 294
What civilized society allows such a thing?
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Post by jon on Oct 2, 2015 9:37:40 GMT -5
Yes the shooting in Oregon is a tragedy. What additional restrictions on legal gun ownership would have prevented it? So Obama uses the tragedy to attack legal gun owners and especially his political opponent---the NRA---favorite whipping boy of the left. Meantime Chicago shootings continue to increase. ~ 10 times as many as the Oregon total in Chicago just in Sept. chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/10/01/shootings-murders-spike-in-chicago-in-september/A quick net search shows the most recent Obama comments on Chicago gun crime more than 2 years ago---apparently reported only on FNC nationally. Even worse, look at the Obama administration's prosecution of illegal guns in Chicago! "By this measure, compared with the 90 federal judicial districts in the U.S., the prosecution rate in Chicago was the lowest in the country." Read More At Investor's Business Daily: news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/040213-650124-chicago-dead-last-in-federal-gun-prosecutions.htm#ixzz3nQAsU1xRFollow us: @ibdinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook Not much to be gained politically by focusing attention on Black people shooting each other with illegal guns, I guess. Civilized?
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Post by leftylarry on Oct 2, 2015 11:23:50 GMT -5
I think people are missing the real point.
When African-American men were "wilding", raping, robbing, mugging and murdering at a very high rate, my leftist friends used to say, "We need to look at why a generation of young Black man feel so alienated, so hopeless and helpless that they resort to such anti-social behavior.
Now with years of disenfranchising young white men, we're seeing the same issue.Lot's of random murder by a group who has been put in second place, has been filled with Ritalin and guilt, told to get on the back of the line and they are the frustrated and angry ones, I expect this to continue if we don't address their grievences.
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Post by brisco0317 on Oct 2, 2015 12:17:49 GMT -5
I think people are missing the real point. When African-American men were "wilding", raping, robbing, mugging and murdering at a very high rate, my leftist friends used to say, "We need to look at why a generation of young Black man feel so alienated, so hopeless and helpless that they resort to such anti-social behavior. Now with years of disenfranchising young white men, we're seeing the same issue.Lot's of random murder by a group who has been put in second place, has been filled with Ritalin and guilt, told to get on the back of the line and they are the frustrated and angry ones, I expect this to continue if we don't address their grievences. You certainly come up with some crazy ideas...
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 2, 2015 12:57:55 GMT -5
I think people are missing the real point. When African-American men were "wilding", raping, robbing, mugging and murdering at a very high rate, my leftist friends used to say, "We need to look at why a generation of young Black man feel so alienated, so hopeless and helpless that they resort to such anti-social behavior. Now with years of disenfranchising young white men, we're seeing the same issue.Lot's of random murder by a group who has been put in second place, has been filled with Ritalin and guilt, told to get on the back of the line and they are the frustrated and angry ones, I expect this to continue if we don't address their grievences. Yeah, poor whitey.
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 2, 2015 12:59:55 GMT -5
Yes the shooting in Oregon is a tragedy. What additional restrictions on legal gun ownership would have prevented it? So Obama uses the tragedy to attack legal gun owners and especially his political opponent---the NRA---favorite whipping boy of the left. Meantime Chicago shootings continue to increase. ~ 10 times as many as the Oregon total in Chicago just in Sept. chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/10/01/shootings-murders-spike-in-chicago-in-september/A quick net search shows the most recent Obama comments on Chicago gun crime more than 2 years ago---apparently reported only on FNC nationally. Even worse, look at the Obama administration's prosecution of illegal guns in Chicago! "By this measure, compared with the 90 federal judicial districts in the U.S., the prosecution rate in Chicago was the lowest in the country." Read More At Investor's Business Daily: news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/040213-650124-chicago-dead-last-in-federal-gun-prosecutions.htm#ixzz3nQAsU1xRFollow us: @ibdinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook Not much to be gained politically by focusing attention on Black people shooting each other with illegal guns, I guess. Civilized? No one wants to take away guns from sane, law abiding citizens. No one. I love the right's response to all these mass shootings. "Well no law would have changed it. So what can you do? Boys will be boys I s'pose." As for me? I just want guns regulated the same way we regulate a driver's license.
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Post by brisco0317 on Oct 2, 2015 16:09:56 GMT -5
No one wants to take away guns from sane, law abiding citizens. No one. I love the right's response to all these mass shootings. "Well no law would have changed it. So what can you do? Boys will be boys I s'pose." As for me? I just want guns regulated the same way we regulate a driver's license. Agreed.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 2, 2015 22:19:57 GMT -5
The victims were real people, not numbers. Somebody's assertion of Second Amendment rights just trumped their rights to Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. But why?
Maria Alcarez
Treven Anspach
Rebecka Carnes
Quinn Cooper
Kim Saltmarsh Dietz
Lucas Eibel
Jason Johnson
Lawrence Levine
Serena Moore
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 3, 2015 8:53:18 GMT -5
I think the best course of action is to first improve mental health care in the US. Not only care itself but the stigma associated with it. It's happening but slowly.
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munertl
State Legislator
Posts: 261
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Post by munertl on Oct 3, 2015 9:16:47 GMT -5
I'm completely with the president on this one, and just seeing his response to the latest shooting (if it even is the latest) ...I'm equally as fed up with this as he is. Whatever it is that we to do change, the option of doing nothing is no longer acceptable. It's shameful that after Newtown, that such a horrific act of murdering 1st grade children resulted in nothing, and now hundreds of mass shootings later, the response is setting up to be once again, nothing.
He said it after Newtown, but it bears repeating, that if we cannot protect our own children, in school no less, we have failed as a nation. Desperate measures are needed, now. If nothing can be done for gun control, certainly we can step up security at schools. I'm willing to throw the NRA a nugget and put armed guards in these schools, but from a security standpoint, I'm afraid we will have to make them like sports arenas and airports, with guards and metal detectors at the entrances. That won't prevent shootings outside but at least inside the building they will be safe.
As the president said, we were willing to spend trillions of dollars on terrorist threats, which has been dwarfed by the gun violence problem in this country. To fight it requires some investment.
Here's where I'll make the right wing angry. They need to bear the cost of this. Gun owners are the ones who feel like we need an armed society to keep us safe, while most of the rest of us feel like more regulation of the types of weapons people buy, and who is allowed to buy weapons would be a more economical and effective way to reduce violence. So if you believe that your way is better, you can bear the cost for the security measures we need to keep our children from being killed. Either through mandatory gun insurance or through taxes on guns and ammunition, the responsibility for what happens with these weapons is on you.
Doing nothing is not acceptable.
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munertl
State Legislator
Posts: 261
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Post by munertl on Oct 3, 2015 9:32:20 GMT -5
Yes the shooting in Oregon is a tragedy. What additional restrictions on legal gun ownership would have prevented it? So Obama uses the tragedy to attack legal gun owners and especially his political opponent---the NRA---favorite whipping boy of the left. Meantime Chicago shootings continue to increase. ~ 10 times as many as the Oregon total in Chicago just in Sept. chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/10/01/shootings-murders-spike-in-chicago-in-september/A quick net search shows the most recent Obama comments on Chicago gun crime more than 2 years ago---apparently reported only on FNC nationally. Even worse, look at the Obama administration's prosecution of illegal guns in Chicago! "By this measure, compared with the 90 federal judicial districts in the U.S., the prosecution rate in Chicago was the lowest in the country." Read More At Investor's Business Daily: news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/040213-650124-chicago-dead-last-in-federal-gun-prosecutions.htm#ixzz3nQAsU1xRFollow us: @ibdinvestors on Twitter | InvestorsBusinessDaily on Facebook Not much to be gained politically by focusing attention on Black people shooting each other with illegal guns, I guess. Civilized? I don't know whether this particular shooter acquired his gun legally or illegally. Most of the time these shooters are able to just go into any store like Walmart or gander mountain and acquire their arsenal. Perhaps the background check didn't find anything, and often it won't. So basically, there's a pretty good chance that this person was a legal gun owner. You say the president shouldn't attack legal gun owners....well I disagree because the Oregon shooter probably was one. i don't want to discount the murder problem in Chicago either but certainly not allowing a person to be appointed to lead the ATF couldn't be very helpful. It would be nice if we were able to keep track of who owns weapons, where they are all going, and how murderers typically acquire them. Unfortunately the government continues to be blocked on their ability to study gun violence. It's as if there is a complete denial that a problem exists. the thing about guns is they keep making more of them but the old ones never really go away. Some kind of buy back program couldn't hurt to just reduce the number of them that are out there, God only knows where they all are.
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 3, 2015 18:39:52 GMT -5
Doing nothing is not acceptable. They did nothing after 20 little kids were gunned down in Newtown. I don't think 10 adults dying is going to cause much movement on the issue.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 3, 2015 22:14:37 GMT -5
Doing nothing is not acceptable. They did nothing after 20 little kids were gunned down in Newtown. I don't think 10 adults dying is going to cause much movement on the issue.
No, it isn't. It really will take a political movement able to counter the NRA with both money and votes, leading to the appointment of Supreme Court justices who will not distort the Second Amendment out of all recognition, and instead resurrecting its original meaning, as discussed in this op-ed from former Justice John Paul Stevens. Until that happens, the mayhem will continue. If it ever does happen, however, we're going to have a very rapid change on this issue, as we did on same-sex marriage.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 3, 2015 23:12:44 GMT -5
Please don't claim we can't tighten the rules on who can buy and/or carry firearms. Most of the recent mass killers got their guns legally, but even a cursory review of their histories shows they never should have been able to do so. Take this case:
"Jiverly Wong, 41, fired at least 98 shots from two handguns, a Beretta 92 FS 9-millimeter pistol and a Beretta PX4 Storm pistol, inside a civic association in Binghamton, N.Y., where he had taken an English class. He killed 13 former classmates and association employees...Mr. Wong had been arrested, cited or had some minor contact with the police at least five times since 1990, but details about the cases remain unclear...Mr. Wong bought the first gun, the Beretta 92, at a store in Johnson City, N.Y. He passed a background check...Mr. Wong bought the second gun from the same store, but his background check was not approved immediately. He received the gun under a federal rule that allows a gun to be sold if the background check system does not return a decision in three business days."
more
The father of the Oregon shooter was shocked at his kid's arsenal: "ROSEBURG, Ore. — The father of the gunman who killed nine people at a community college here called on the nation to change its gun laws on Saturday, saying the massacre “would not have happened” if his son had not been able to buy so many handguns and rifles. “How was he able to compile that kind of arsenal?” the father, Ian Mercer, said in an interview with CNN at his home in Tarzana, Calif. He said he had no idea that his son owned more than a dozen firearms." link
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 3, 2015 23:25:43 GMT -5
OK, so my anger just overflowed, and I contacted two organizations via their websites:
NRA - "How do you sleep nights with all that blood on your hands?"
Everytown (Bloomberg's anti-NRA group) - "When are you going to organize a protest outside NRA Headquarters in Fairfax, VA? I know you held a march across the Brooklyn Bridge, but the problem isn't Brooklyn, it's the NRA. Wouldn't next spring, during the presidential election campaign, be a timely opportunity to have a protest there? It's just outside Washington, so there'd be plenty of media coverage. It's time to make the people who work in that building ashamed."
I feel a little bit better, but not much.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 3, 2015 23:34:29 GMT -5
"Since 1970, more Americans have died from guns than died in all U.S. wars going back to the American Revolution. When I reported a similar figure in the past, gun lobbyists insisted that it couldn’t possibly be true. But the numbers are unarguable: fewer than 1.4 million war deaths since 1775, more than half in the Civil War, versus about 1.45 million gun deaths since 1970...
"If that doesn’t make you flinch, consider this: In America, more preschoolers are shot dead each year (82 in 2013) than police officers are in the line of duty (27 in 2013), according to figures from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the FBI...
"The gun lobby argues that the problem isn’t firearms; it’s crazy people. Yes, America’s mental health system is a disgrace. But to me, it seems that we’re all crazy if we as a country can’t take modest steps to reduce the carnage that leaves America resembling a battlefield." link
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 4, 2015 9:01:37 GMT -5
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 4, 2015 22:18:33 GMT -5
The last gun store in San Francisco announced it is closing its doors. Hooray! And SF has shown how to do it, as explained by the store's owner:
"Namely, Alciaro told the AP, a proposed ordinance that would force the store to record each sale and submit weekly reports detailing ammunition sales to police. Alcairo added that he has also grown tired of filling out “mountains of paperwork” for the San Francisco Police Department, the state Justice Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
"According to Fox News, past regulations have forced the business to remove ads from its windows and “install cameras and barriers around its exterior.” Alcairo said the store has 17 cameras whose video footage he hands over to police anytime they request it. “This time, it’s the idea of filming our customers taking delivery of items after they already completed waiting periods,” Alcairo said. “We feel this is a tactic designed to discourage customers from coming to us." Supervisor Mark Farrell, who introduced the bill that Alcairo claims will put his store out of business, told the San Francisco Examiner that the city can always do more to combat gun violence." link
Death by paperwork! I love it.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 4, 2015 23:23:45 GMT -5
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 5, 2015 17:27:02 GMT -5
You cannot make this stuff up: the WP's web page posted these two articles in succession:
"Like many Americans, Tennessee Lt. Gov. Ron Ramsey (R) took to social media to post his reaction to the mass shooting last week at Oregon’s Umpqua Community College. Ramsey’s Facebook post Friday focused on one aspect of the tragedy: that the gunman reportedly asked his victims whether they were Christian and then shot them if they answered yes. Ramsey’s solution? “Fellow Christians who are serious about their faith” should “think about getting a handgun permit.” He included a link to a state government Web site instructing residents on how they can acquire such a permit." link
Yes, nothing provides you bona fides as followers of the Jesus who said, "You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" like a gun and a carry permit. Meanwhile, elsewhere in Tennessee:
"An argument between two children over puppies turned tragic Saturday when an 11-year-old boy killed his 8-year-old neighbor with a shotgun, according to authorities in Jefferson County, Tenn...Each of the children had a puppy, the sheriff said. The 11-year-old “wanted to see the 8-year-old’s, and she said no, and then he went and retrieved a gun,” [Sheriff] McCoig said. The boy fired the 12-gauge shotgun from inside of his house, striking the girl as she stood in her yard, according to the sheriff. The gun, which was stored in a closet without locks, belonged to the boy’s father, McCoig said." link Jesus wept.
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 5, 2015 18:56:16 GMT -5
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 5, 2015 21:53:47 GMT -5
The NRA can be--and has been--beaten:
"I used to be an NRA member. I took the NRA hunting safety course when I was a teenager. "It’s not the same organization anymore. My message to anyone else running in this environment is that you don’t need to be so terrified by the NRA. The majority of voters want there to be reasonable gun safety legislation. If politicians don’t have the courage to take on the NRA on these issues, we’re going to see more shootings." link.
Just need to have a spine.
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munertl
State Legislator
Posts: 261
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Post by munertl on Oct 6, 2015 16:16:38 GMT -5
I'd like to make it much much easier to get someone onto the bad list so they can't pass the background check.
i would hope there could be another category to put folks in that would require additional scrutiny before allowed to buy a gun or even ammunition. And to get someone into that category should be easy, as long as there is some documented proof of wrongdoing, such as: 1) any type of negligent handling of a firearm 2) a suspicious threatening post on the internet that can be traced back to an IP address they use or are responsible for 3) connection with any hate groups or on any type of terror watch list 4) any previous violations of hunting regulations 5) any current or past restraining orders filed against the individual 6) any history of mental health problems, or prescriptions taken 7) dishonorable discharge of military
im sure there are many others. What I'd also like to see are steps taken so that it becomes very easy to anonymously rat someone out to get them on this watch list, as long as it has some qualifying documentation. If I see a suspicious post on the Internet, I should be able to forward it to a simple government website where it will be logged and investigated. So if I go on some right wing news site do mine through the comments and some guy even hints at shooting someone, reported, and the site administrator reports him to authorities and he's on the list. Pay for it with taxes on guns and ammunition.
if you end up on one of these lists, you may ultimately be able to buy a gun but only after a full mental evaluation, periodic audits, and recertification required each year.
the critics would say that they'll just buy a gun on the street. Go ahead and let them try. A lot of them will be too scared to do it. Right now they can go anywhere and easily get what they want. Why make it so easy for them?
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munertl
State Legislator
Posts: 261
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Post by munertl on Oct 6, 2015 16:48:34 GMT -5
The NRA can be--and has been--beaten:
"I used to be an NRA member. I took the NRA hunting safety course when I was a teenager. "It’s not the same organization anymore. My message to anyone else running in this environment is that you don’t need to be so terrified by the NRA. The majority of voters want there to be reasonable gun safety legislation. If politicians don’t have the courage to take on the NRA on these issues, we’re going to see more shootings." link.
Just need to have a spine. That was an interesting article. I remember seeing the hypocrisy of the NRA in the last election cycle, because there were democrats with A ratings yet the NRA endorsed their opponents and ran ads against them. Their first loyalty is to the Republican Party, period. The 2010 election was a riot too because Ron Johnson said a few anti guns things that Feingold seized on, yet the NRA didn't care and endorsed him anyway. the way the NRA has behaved over the last decade plus, the president should rightfully designate them as a terrorist organization.
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munertl
State Legislator
Posts: 261
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Post by munertl on Oct 6, 2015 16:50:15 GMT -5
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Post by buckybasser on Oct 6, 2015 17:46:54 GMT -5
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun... Our principal is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the party...
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves...
Does it appear that the liberal chorus here is singing echoes of Mao & Stalin?
As the statist choir drones on, we can all rejoice that the Sunshine State has moved one step closer to supporting freedom and decreasing gun crimes!
www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/open-carry-bill-gets-early-support-in-florida-house-hearing/2248583
Of course, a plain language reading of the 2nd Amendment would mean that the entire nation is already open carry.
However, in the socialist pasture Frankie planted (where we must continually dodge grazing lawmakers, judges and Julias) you take freedom back one step at a time.
Halleluiah!
>O
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Post by mudcannon on Oct 6, 2015 19:03:56 GMT -5
Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun... Our principal is that the Party commands the gun, and the gun must never be allowed to command the party...
If the opposition disarms, well and good. If it refuses to disarm, we shall disarm it ourselves...
Does it appear that the liberal chorus here is singing echoes of Mao & Stalin?
As the statist choir drones on, we can all rejoice that the Sunshine State has moved one step closer to supporting freedom and decreasing gun crimes!
www.tampabay.com/news/politics/stateroundup/open-carry-bill-gets-early-support-in-florida-house-hearing/2248583
Of course, a plain language reading of the 2nd Amendment would mean that the entire nation is already open carry.
However, in the socialist pasture Frankie planted (where we must continually dodge grazing lawmakers, judges and Julias) you take freedom back one step at a time.
Halleluiah!
>O
I repeat: No one wants your gun if you are of able mind and moral character (i.e. sane and not a criminal). No. One.
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Post by Old Badger on Oct 6, 2015 20:19:35 GMT -5
Does it appear that the liberal chorus here is singing echoes of Mao & Stalin?
Oh, knock it off. Sheesh!
How many dead kids does it take?
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